Marnetta: Hi listeners, it's me, Marnetta Larimer, host here at Impacting the Classroom. As always, we love to kick off our conversation by asking what's impacting the classroom. Today, all snapping fingers, we have with us Darrell Brown with ITAV, It takes a Village Schools. We will be chatting about servant leadership and holistic schooling. Darrell, welcome.
Darrell: Hi, good afternoon, it is so good to see you Marnetta.
Marnetta: Same, we have some history, right?
Darrell: Yes, we do. TeachStone brought us together and it created a full-circle moment for us as well. How I first met Marnetta was training to get my certification to be zero to three infant-toddler class observers. That's how we met and now we're connected forever.
Marnetta: We are connected forever. I remember your name for the training was Darrell Donut because our icebreaker was about having a picnic and what you were going to bring and it had to match the first letter of your name. I remember that. It's been many, many years, but you will always be Darrell Donut for me.
I am so excited about our episode today, especially being able to chat with you. I think the first thing I want to talk about is what you do at ITAV schools and tell us a little bit about that organization.
Darrell: Awesome. Again, everyone, my name is Darrell Brown, and currently I serve as the Director of Teaching, Learning, and Quality Practice with It Takes a Village Family of Schools. I just transitioned into that role, so that's overseeing the educational component over all of our zero to five classrooms. It Takes a Village comprises six early child care centers and two elementary schools.
I work over the ECE space. Prior to this position, I was the director of the Early Childhood Workforce Development Program and that program was created to directly combat the teacher shortage crisis that all of us are all too familiar with. During that time, I had the pleasure of supporting 100 youth between the ages of 16–24 earned their Child Development Associate credential through the Council for Professional Recognition. That was such a pleasure working with new faces in our field and encouraging new people to try early childhood education. Developing them professionally as well as making sure they are aware of all best practices, quality teachers, and child interaction. That's what I do here at It Takes a Village.
How I got to this position is that previously I used to be a teacher coach for Early Head Start and so I would train infantile teachers on best practices using the Construct Coaching tool, which I totally subscribed to, but it aligns with CLASS directly. It allows teachers to focus and hone in on practices that allow them to get the scores they want in CLASS.
Marnetta: Wonderful and congratulations on your promotion.
Darrell: Thank you.
Marnetta: Doing big things and impacting your community. Today's session is about some things that really resonate with you that you feel very strongly about. Servant leadership and holistic practices in the classroom. Let's talk first about servant leadership. Let's start with the definition of servant leadership. What does that mean?
Darrell: Servant leadership to me is being a support and a resource for the people that you serve. Most times, traditionally, people look at leadership on a hierarchical scale and they're a dictator, they're at the top and they're setting expectations and they're requiring reports and they're asking for specific things in this world of key performance indicators.
But for me, and what I absolutely subscribe to is being a servant leader. I think servant leadership is the absolute way to go and it's the way that I lead. I don't look at myself as at the top of the food chain and calling all the shots. I want to be of service to the people that report to me making sure they have all the things they need being a constant resource, having that open door policy so that you can build that trust and that relationship so that things get done.
In that type of environment where you support the people that work under you and you serve them for a better word to align with this conversation where you serve the people that report to you, they are more than likely more successful at getting the job done. For leaders, being of service to people who report to you, I think is the way to go. It has been the reason I've been successful in the people that I've supported in my career.
Marnetta: Okay, I heard some specific characteristics there. You were talking about putting others first, and focusing on service. I think I heard that. What are some other characteristics that really define servant leadership?
Darrell: I think relationship building is so important when you're coaching and leading other people. When I say relationship building, that's building trust in the workplace. Obviously, you can't be friends with everyone that reports to you. But being able to build a relationship on trust, transparency, expectations that allows for it to be a two-way street. Again, me being of service to what do you need? For example, a teacher may be struggling to get lesson plans done and if I wasn't a servant leader, I would be referring back to their key performance indicators. You have to have your lesson plans done weekly or monthly and you have to do this.
A servant leader would start with what is the barrier that's stopping you from getting your lesson plans done? That is actually an example in my past that I've experienced while working as a coach. A teacher was struggling to get lesson plans done. I asked, what's going on? The technology in that teacher's classroom was outdated. It wasn't able to keep up with the latest technology updates with the system they use for their curriculum and to get lesson planning done.
As the leader, I did everything in my power to make sure that teacher had everything they could and so we were able to get that classroom new iPads and immediately lesson planning started to be done again in that classroom. Before that, the teacher was struggling to do anecdotal note taking and to do handwritten lesson plans and to individualize. It was a lot. If we only look at it from a leadership perspective, I'm not able to check that box. I'm going to the classroom. I need to see a lesson plan. It needs to be visible and I don't see it.
But a servant leader found out what was going on, and what's the barrier, and then immediately addressed that barrier so that the teacher could be successful. To me, that's I think in a nutshell, a good example of the difference between servant leadership and traditional dictator leadership.
Marnetta: Yeah, that really empowers your teachers to figure out some effective ways to move that needle in their classroom and get outcomes that they want to get. You said so many other terms that really resonate with me. You asked this open-ended question. You were inquiring about that needle, you know where I am going, really a lot of things that fall in that emotional support domain of the CLASS tool. You're aware that there is this challenge with the educator and you're responding in these ways that really support them and are able for them to be successful in the classroom with some sprinkles of course in some of the other domains as well.
But those parallels with what we do here at TeachStone with our CLASS tool and how you are supporting your educators, that's a very clear parallel process in those behaviors based on the importance of the relationship building that you said was key to this servant leadership work.
Darrell: Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy. You can use those CLASS tools and domains and every aspect of life. If you look at work as a place where you grow and continue to learn, then that's a place where you can always use the tools of CLASS because you're trying to create an environment with CLASS to get the most out of learning in that environment. That relationship between the teacher and their supervisor, or director, or someone that's supporting them, those tools absolutely can be used and be beneficial.
Marnetta: Absolutely. Not just for children and students in the classroom. Adults need that same type of care, inquiry into them as people, and positioning them to improve their practices. The sensitivity and care that you're showing, like kudos, and thanks for using what you learned so long ago.
Darrell: Thanks. From you, I learned it from you.
Marnetta: You also had a really beautiful example of how those characteristics show up in your work so I appreciate you sharing that with us as well. Why do you think that school and educational leaders need to think about leadership differently? Why is that important?
Darrell: Well, we are suffering from a teacher shortage crisis. We're looking for teachers. Everyone is looking for teachers. If you have a full staff with floaters, kudos to you. We want that to be the norm. For us to get there, this field needs to be led by servant leaders.
Also make sure they fall in love with this field, right? We don't want them to come for three or five years. We want them to be career educators and realize the importance of building our future leaders and potentially future educators for the future. I used to refer to my apprentice and I worked for a development program as future educators because I wanted them to feel empowered and to stand in the fact that and see themselves as educators and so I absolutely need that approach, that leadership, and things like that.
It'll just overall benefit the classrooms and the centers if they have those types of servant leaders and it'll overall ultimately benefit our field of early childhood education as servant leaders.
Marnetta: Most definitely. When Robert K. Greenleaf coined this phrase right back in the 70s, and it became this phenomenon, he talked about servant leadership at an individual leadership level but also touched on how an organization as a whole could live as a servant leadership body. What are your thoughts about that? Where you are currently or where you've been previously, what does the embodiment of that look like at an organizational level and how do you support that?
Darrell: Yeah, thank you for that question because I do think that relates to some of my experiences in this field. When you work for an organization that's top down looking at leadership as servant leadership, they're a lot more intentional about the professional development and growth of their staff. They're a lot more intentional about being a leader in their community and not just servicing the kids when they come through the door from 6 AM to 6 PM, but serving the entire family holistically, being a staple in their community, and feeling like they're of service and that what they provide is a need.
I think it's super important and I think it relates wholeheartedly to that statement of servant leadership and why he probably coined the phrase because if an organization looks at itself as a servant organization or has servant leadership as one of their core values, then from the top down, from leadership to the little babies that they serve or outwardly from the little babies to the families, children and families that that organization serves, everyone benefits from it.
It's based in a trust. That trust, that relationship-building piece, will be automatically built into it. The community will trust this organization to know, hey, I can go here and my kids are gonna get the education and care that they need, but also there'll be resources for me and for my family as a whole.
I am proud of the fact that I work for It Takes a Village because we are intentional both ways by making sure we speak to the fact that we are serving not just the children here, but we're serving the children, families, and the community, so that they can be transformative in their communities, this nation, and ultimately in the world as world citizens.
Marnetta: I love what you just said and I knew you were going to get there at some point. That's another characteristic of that servant leadership, creating that inclusive environment for the community serving and you were just talking about how you're meeting people where they are, giving them what they need, making sure that everyone has a voice. Yes, that obviously is just in your blood to lead in that way.
Before we shift to our next topic, is there anything else you'd like to share with us about servant leadership and either how individuals could adopt more of those practices or anything for the organizations who should do some shifting as well and those outcomes that come from that?
Darrell: I would say, servant leadership is the way. Subscribe to it, get it on a t-shirt or tattoo it if you're into that type of thing. It served me well. For those who haven't looked at leadership that way, I'd encourage you to try it.
Marnetta: Now I have a follow up question. What got you into this? Was it just a natural inclination? But what led you into servant leadership? Did you read a book?
Darrell: Absolutely not. I would say it's authentically me. Since I was a young, young, young lad, I've been afforded the opportunity to be in leadership on the speech team when I was in high school, show choir, and on dance teams. I'm still dancing. I'm almost 40 and I'm a part of three dance companies here in Chicago. I served as the vice president of one of those dance organizations. I am a leader in the ECE space.
When I was a coach, I looked at myself as a leader and so I think I was afforded those opportunities because of my ability to bring people together naturally. I think it's just a natural thing for me. To get success from the people that I had the opportunity to lead. I should say serve.
I think that's a part of me authentically, but I don't want people to think that that's not something they can't subscribe to or something that they can't do for themselves if they aren't that way naturally. Again, that's that relationship building piece, leaning into trust, being a servant of the people you work with, making sure they have all the things they need. It will be successful for you. For me, it is a part of who I am naturally. I'm a lover of people. I am a believer that you can find good in all situations. That may be authentically me, but I think servant leadership is something that anyone can do.
Marnetta: Yeah, most of them I agree. I appreciate your honesty there because there are some innate traits. It's just who I am as a person, but we always have an ability to have a growth mindset, like to shift the tide of what we're doing. It is possible there is literature out there. There are courses, et cetera. That's something you can shift into if your style does not lean from leading from the heart as opposed to policy and [inaudible 00:18:27].
Wonderful. Thank you so much for that. Let's move to this other part. Let's talk about holistic schooling. What are you talking about?
Darrell: Holistic schooling talks about an organization that, and I hate to revert it back to servant leadership, but holistic schooling comes from that servant leader mindset. A holistic school in my mind is that space that you can go to for everything. My organization, It Takes a Village Family of Schools, one of our founders speaks all the time about how when she was younger, she would go to the watering hole, [inaudible 00:19:15]. It was a program that she was a part of as a child that completely shifted her life, and encouraged her to build this organization with her mom.
That program is an example of that holistic schooling being able to go to school, not just to educate your kids, but there's resources there for the kids, there's resources there for the family, there's community events, there's activism taking place, there's just this holistic thing.
If a child is hungry when they come to school, maybe that family has some issues or some food insecurities and maybe that child isn't the only one in that family that may be suffering and may be hungry. That holistic school will provide some type of family support or some type of counselor or someone that meets with the family and sets goals and kind of gets acquainted with the family and then provides them with resources so that they can come out of that situation.
It's just this holistic approach with holistic schooling. In my mind, holistic schooling, I think, is the way education should go, being a staple in the community, serving not just the children, but the family and community as a whole.
Some schools would need to expand and then some schools are already headed in that direction by the types of positions they have, family support specialists, counselors, mental health, wellness centers attached to certain schools. To me, that is that holistic approach and I would just love to see schools being that centerpiece for the community.
Marnetta: I hear you saying not just addressing the immediate problem, but really get into the root of it and being a support system in alleviating or minimizing some of those barriers that come with having, for example, food insecurities in a household. Because we understand the impact of those things on education and the students that we have right in the classroom.
I love the idea of not just this immediate thing in front of me, but really looking and diving deep at the root and trying to solve as a whole this problem, issue, barrier challenge that might be in front of us.
Darrell: Sometimes, that can get misconstrued. People might want to implement this holistic approach in this school so they get a child that is having food insecurity or you realize they are hungry when they arrive. The school may go let's set them up [inaudible 00:22:17]. Print out this piece of paper. They have a food bank in this part of town. We just thought you should have it, right?
Is that holistic, right? If they can't buy food, do you know about their transportation needs? Are they going to be able to get to this food bank? A more realistic holistic approach will be having someone that can meet with families during orientation or registration for their child to attend that school, and then taking it a step further by setting goals and learning about that family's boundaries and then being able to address them there.
Obviously, resources or an organization's capacity would dictate how effective they can be in that holistic approach. But that would be the goal. That's the dream that schools are the hub of resources. We are not afraid as taxpayers to hear for funds to go in that direction knowing that it's going to serve the community holistically.
Just being really intentional about that and not just hey, I noticed this and I want to support you. Here's a list of all the places that can help you. Good luck with that. The heart's in the right place. Their heart is in the right place, but is that the holistic approach we dream of that we want ultimately for our students.
Marnetta: When you think about where we are today, what you're talking about isn't what we traditionally think of when we think about school. Children come. I have this role of educating them and then go on about your way. Why do you think that that has changed?
Darrell: Why our perspective of what school should be?
Marnetta: Yes
Darrell: I think my mindset has changed because I work in the field of education and people services and being of service to people and I know the benefits of that. I think people are starting to realize it's hard to have a one stop shop somewhere. It's hard to build that, but it's needed. If we really want to be a lover of people and to see our communities grow and we want to see equity across all platforms, I think that's a way that the less fortunate are seeing it could potentially be possible.
In my career, I've had the opportunity to work for programs that were in communities that were heavily resourced and the median income was higher than maybe another organization that I've worked for and the demographic of people they serve. When you can see both sides of the spectrum like that, you see this place has all of these resources and this place over here doesn't have that and so you start to think of ways of how you can replicate that and be of a resource.
With schools, education being like the pinnacle, it seems like that culminating place where people can go to and get those things. I do think it's based on equity and inclusion and making sure everyone has what they need. So yeah, I think it's just shifting with the time.
Marnetta: Most definitely. I think our early Head Start and Head Start programs have a good grasp of that holistic approach. When we talk about replication, how do we move that outside of that space? Because we know it doesn't stop there, right? Those families, those children, they still have those needs moving into the public school sector.
Again, we know the impact it has on their education. You think about Maslow, that hierarchy of needs. If I'm hungry, I can't focus on anything else but the fact that I am hungry so how do we remove those things so that the learning can happen and we can look at those outcomes that we know will make them successful adults moving forward. I like the idea of that replication. Are there other places aside from Early Head Start and like Head Start where people could go to replicate this type of holistic approach.
Darrell: I don't want to pretend to be an expert in that area. I can just speak to my own personal experiences so I want to make that clear. I'm a dreamer. Marnetta, I'm dreaming, right? I come from a low income family. I come from living in low income neighborhoods and I've been able to afford myself a career where I've been able to live in communities and work with communities outside of where I actually come from. That's where that dream is coming from for me and I really try to stay away from being political, but I want to just speak to being an American citizen and I think people need to really be aware of how important voting is and being aware of the change that we can make if we unite.
My dream is that communities are so tight-knit that they can set goals together and be able to effectively go after it with numbers for the service and for the betterment of everyone in that community. A lot of times I see communities that are heavily resourced and maybe above the poverty line when it comes to income, they kind of do that. They have community, they have town hall meetings, they discuss what's important to them. Then they all kind of do that. In my experience in the neighborhoods that I grew up in that did not have a lot of resources.
Community felt like the people on my block. If I was hungry, we could go to our neighbors and get milk and that's your community. It feels smaller. When you're hungry, you're trying to survive and you have to care and you retreat to doing what's best for you so that you can just make it right. That we get out of that mindset of, again, dreaming.
If a school was to be in that neighborhood and be the catalyst for that change and bring people together by being a servant institution in that neighborhood and then ultimately create and being that holistic hub for a neighborhood and slowly transforming that and creating jobs in that neighborhood and making education the pinnacle of all of that would be amazing. That's me dreaming. That's me dreaming.
Marnetta: Yeah, I love dreams. I don't like to be political either. You're correct. We don't want to just vote in general elections, the big ones. It's also so many policies and bills that affect early childhood education that are not just in the general election. It's also in the people you promote to higher offices. There's so many things that slip through when we're not paying attention.
Voting and being aware of what's happening in our early childhood landscape is important to make sure that we get the things that we need, the funding, right? The support for our educators, and supporting their salaries, retaining our workforce, all of those things are important for us to do this work that we all love so much.
Darrell: Yeah.
Marnetta: While you're dreaming, how do you see or where do you see schooling evolving?
Darrell: I think it's just that. I think schooling should evolve in the way that schools are not as traditional like this K through high school and then college, early childhood education, grammar, middle high school, then college and then graduate, type of thing. It's just about school.
But again, I do see it changing in that holistic approach and I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with the organization like It Takes a Village Family of Schools because that is what our CEO, Nakisha Hobbs, and our CGO, Anita Andrews-Hutchinson, they're both co-owners, are actively working in leadership here still which is a blessing.
That is the direction we're going for. It's that change in that educational space, being culturally responsive to the children and families that we serve. Being able to provide wellness opportunities to the community as well as education. Being able to provide career pathways to families and resources, education opportunities for not just the children we serve, but for the community in general.
Our workforce development program was an example of that. It directly came due to a need from our community. We have children we need to serve and we don't have enough teachers, but we need to go out and get more teachers and we need to train them. We need to have patience and we need to fight for funding to do this type of work and go out and get it.
I think that is the direction that I see educational spaces going to being culturally responsive, making sure that all children, no matter their creed, skin tone, they feel seen and represented and empowered and that not just the kid's getting this knowledge and growing, but there's education opportunities for the family as a whole and then as a community as a whole.
I see education going that way in certain places, I would say. In Chicago, we have recently, in our public school system, we're adapting this elective school board officials type of thing. It's causing an uproar in Chicago. I won't speak too much about it because I'm not an expert in that.
But I would hope that the result of these things is more holistic schooling efforts for neighborhoods, making sure funds are distributed equally and ultimately so that schools can be like this example of servant leadership, top down, a servant organization. The community and ultimately becoming that holistic schooling approach and being like that pinnacle of neighborhoods. That's my dream.
Marnetta: When we think about the holistic approach and then that more traditional model of schools, how are we placing unfair expectations on educators?
Darrell: I think that kind of circles us back to being servant leaders. If we have a classroom that's over ratio, a teacher has too many teachers in the classroom, we can't expect that teacher to also do family assessments and also write grants and also do all of these things.
We need to pour funding into our educational system so that we can have people in to do those jobs specifically. If we don't and we aim high, we could place unrealistic expectations on teachers and ultimately cause them to leave the field. We do not want that. We do not want that at all. We want to make sure that we are not placing those unfair expectations on teachers.
The way that we do that is making sure they are absolutely equipped with all the things that they need, making sure that those who are leaders of that organization, our servant leaders, in ways that they are serving the teachers, in the ways that they continue to pour into the field of education by workforce development and making sure we have enough teachers and classrooms and then ultimately seeking funding that can allow us to expand the services that schools provide so that teachers aren't called on to do everything.
I used to be a teacher and I was a pre-k teacher and that's a lot. You're not just teaching ABCs and one two threes. You're a counselor. You're a problem solver. You're a teacher. You're a friend if the community is really that tight. Going for that holistic schooling model is the dream.
But as we reach for our dream, we have to be very intentional not to overwhelm our teachers, our change makers. They are building our future of tomorrow and so we want to make sure we are loving them the most, just like we love our kids the most.
Marnetta: Yeah. I was going to ask a follow-up question about retention, but you kind of wrapped it up in that last response. How can we retain and support these important, pivotal people for what we need to do in our field? I appreciate that. That was a nice whole way of where I needed you to go.
Darrell: I was also going to say we definitely want to make sure we're supporting teachers in that way. One of my supervisors used to always say to me people don't quit their jobs. Most teachers love teaching, right? They quit their supervisors. That's another reason why it's so important that we implement that servant leadership, especially in spaces where we are trying to retain our teachers.
Please retain your teachers. If you're listening, do everything to service your teachers, love one of them, make sure they have everything they need, the same way you would support a child, support that teacher.
Obviously not the same way. I don't want you going rocking any of your teachers. Don't try to lift them up and hurt your back. Then you won't be able to show up for the kids. But be there and be of support and have that servant mindset and look through that servant lens. How can you serve? I think servant leadership is definitely the way to combat our teacher service crisis that we're experiencing.
Marnetta: Most definitely, because even in the most stretching environment, if I have good support, if my leader is giving me what I need and the support, I can withstand anything if I feel supported. You put the nail on the head with. We don't quit a job, we ain't quitting the role, we quit you. We are leaders in all the shenanigans that come with that leadership, right?
Darrell: Yeah.
Marnetta: You hit the nail on the head with that. Any final thoughts before we say goodbye?
Darrell: [inaudible 00:39:34] It has been a pleasure speaking with you, Marnetta. I'm looking forward to us connecting again and talking about all the things CLASS and early childhood education. Be the change you want to see people.
Marnetta: Thanks for talking with us, Darrell, about how to lead with our heart as opposed to all those other external factors. Those relationships, those interactions are the most important thing that really drive the outcomes that we're trying to seek.
Alright, listeners, we hope you've enjoyed today's conversation and we hope that you follow along for another great season. You can find today's episode and transcript on our website, teachstone.com/podcast. We'd love to know what you think so let us know by dropping us a like and a comment on Apple Podcast or from whatever platform you are streaming from so that we can continue to make content that really speaks to you. You can also send us an email at
[email protected]. As always, behind great leading and teaching are powerful interactions. Let's build that culture together. Talk to you soon.
Marnetta: Hi listeners, it's me, Marnetta Larimer, host here at Impacting the Classroom. As always, we love to kick off our conversation by asking what's impacting the classroom. Today, all snapping fingers, we have with us Darrell Brown with ITAV, It takes a Village Schools. We will be chatting about servant leadership and holistic schooling. Darrell, welcome.
Darrell: Hi, good afternoon, it is so good to see you Marnetta.
Marnetta: Same, we have some history, right?
Darrell: Yes, we do. TeachStone brought us together and it created a full-circle moment for us as well. How I first met Marnetta was training to get my certification to be zero to three infant-toddler class observers. That's how we met and now we're connected forever.
Marnetta: We are connected forever. I remember your name for the training was Darrell Donut because our icebreaker was about having a picnic and what you were going to bring and it had to match the first letter of your name. I remember that. It's been many, many years, but you will always be Darrell Donut for me.
I am so excited about our episode today, especially being able to chat with you. I think the first thing I want to talk about is what you do at ITAV schools and tell us a little bit about that organization.
Darrell: Awesome. Again, everyone, my name is Darrell Brown, and currently I serve as the Director of Teaching, Learning, and Quality Practice with It Takes a Village Family of Schools. I just transitioned into that role, so that's overseeing the educational component over all of our zero to five classrooms. It Takes a Village comprises six early child care centers and two elementary schools.
I work over the ECE space. Prior to this position, I was the director of the Early Childhood Workforce Development Program and that program was created to directly combat the teacher shortage crisis that all of us are all too familiar with. During that time, I had the pleasure of supporting 100 youth between the ages of 16–24 earned their Child Development Associate credential through the Council for Professional Recognition. That was such a pleasure working with new faces in our field and encouraging new people to try early childhood education. Developing them professionally as well as making sure they are aware of all best practices, quality teachers, and child interaction. That's what I do here at It Takes a Village.
How I got to this position is that previously I used to be a teacher coach for Early Head Start and so I would train infantile teachers on best practices using the Construct Coaching tool, which I totally subscribed to, but it aligns with CLASS directly. It allows teachers to focus and hone in on practices that allow them to get the scores they want in CLASS.
Marnetta: Wonderful and congratulations on your promotion.
Darrell: Thank you.
Marnetta: Doing big things and impacting your community. Today's session is about some things that really resonate with you that you feel very strongly about. Servant leadership and holistic practices in the classroom. Let's talk first about servant leadership. Let's start with the definition of servant leadership. What does that mean?
Darrell: Servant leadership to me is being a support and a resource for the people that you serve. Most times, traditionally, people look at leadership on a hierarchical scale and they're a dictator, they're at the top and they're setting expectations and they're requiring reports and they're asking for specific things in this world of key performance indicators.
But for me, and what I absolutely subscribe to is being a servant leader. I think servant leadership is the absolute way to go and it's the way that I lead. I don't look at myself as at the top of the food chain and calling all the shots. I want to be of service to the people that report to me making sure they have all the things they need being a constant resource, having that open door policy so that you can build that trust and that relationship so that things get done.
In that type of environment where you support the people that work under you and you serve them for a better word to align with this conversation where you serve the people that report to you, they are more than likely more successful at getting the job done. For leaders, being of service to people who report to you, I think is the way to go. It has been the reason I've been successful in the people that I've supported in my career.
Marnetta: Okay, I heard some specific characteristics there. You were talking about putting others first, and focusing on service. I think I heard that. What are some other characteristics that really define servant leadership?
Darrell: I think relationship building is so important when you're coaching and leading other people. When I say relationship building, that's building trust in the workplace. Obviously, you can't be friends with everyone that reports to you. But being able to build a relationship on trust, transparency, expectations that allows for it to be a two-way street. Again, me being of service to what do you need? For example, a teacher may be struggling to get lesson plans done and if I wasn't a servant leader, I would be referring back to their key performance indicators. You have to have your lesson plans done weekly or monthly and you have to do this.
A servant leader would start with what is the barrier that's stopping you from getting your lesson plans done? That is actually an example in my past that I've experienced while working as a coach. A teacher was struggling to get lesson plans done. I asked, what's going on? The technology in that teacher's classroom was outdated. It wasn't able to keep up with the latest technology updates with the system they use for their curriculum and to get lesson planning done.
As the leader, I did everything in my power to make sure that teacher had everything they could and so we were able to get that classroom new iPads and immediately lesson planning started to be done again in that classroom. Before that, the teacher was struggling to do anecdotal note taking and to do handwritten lesson plans and to individualize. It was a lot. If we only look at it from a leadership perspective, I'm not able to check that box. I'm going to the classroom. I need to see a lesson plan. It needs to be visible and I don't see it.
But a servant leader found out what was going on, and what's the barrier, and then immediately addressed that barrier so that the teacher could be successful. To me, that's I think in a nutshell, a good example of the difference between servant leadership and traditional dictator leadership.
Marnetta: Yeah, that really empowers your teachers to figure out some effective ways to move that needle in their classroom and get outcomes that they want to get. You said so many other terms that really resonate with me. You asked this open-ended question. You were inquiring about that needle, you know where I am going, really a lot of things that fall in that emotional support domain of the CLASS tool. You're aware that there is this challenge with the educator and you're responding in these ways that really support them and are able for them to be successful in the classroom with some sprinkles of course in some of the other domains as well.
But those parallels with what we do here at TeachStone with our CLASS tool and how you are supporting your educators, that's a very clear parallel process in those behaviors based on the importance of the relationship building that you said was key to this servant leadership work.
Darrell: Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy. You can use those CLASS tools and domains and every aspect of life. If you look at work as a place where you grow and continue to learn, then that's a place where you can always use the tools of CLASS because you're trying to create an environment with CLASS to get the most out of learning in that environment. That relationship between the teacher and their supervisor, or director, or someone that's supporting them, those tools absolutely can be used and be beneficial.
Marnetta: Absolutely. Not just for children and students in the classroom. Adults need that same type of care, inquiry into them as people, and positioning them to improve their practices. The sensitivity and care that you're showing, like kudos, and thanks for using what you learned so long ago.
Darrell: Thanks. From you, I learned it from you.
Marnetta: You also had a really beautiful example of how those characteristics show up in your work so I appreciate you sharing that with us as well. Why do you think that school and educational leaders need to think about leadership differently? Why is that important?
Darrell: Well, we are suffering from a teacher shortage crisis. We're looking for teachers. Everyone is looking for teachers. If you have a full staff with floaters, kudos to you. We want that to be the norm. For us to get there, this field needs to be led by servant leaders.
Also make sure they fall in love with this field, right? We don't want them to come for three or five years. We want them to be career educators and realize the importance of building our future leaders and potentially future educators for the future. I used to refer to my apprentice and I worked for a development program as future educators because I wanted them to feel empowered and to stand in the fact that and see themselves as educators and so I absolutely need that approach, that leadership, and things like that.
It'll just overall benefit the classrooms and the centers if they have those types of servant leaders and it'll overall ultimately benefit our field of early childhood education as servant leaders.
Marnetta: Most definitely. When Robert K. Greenleaf coined this phrase right back in the 70s, and it became this phenomenon, he talked about servant leadership at an individual leadership level but also touched on how an organization as a whole could live as a servant leadership body. What are your thoughts about that? Where you are currently or where you've been previously, what does the embodiment of that look like at an organizational level and how do you support that?
Darrell: Yeah, thank you for that question because I do think that relates to some of my experiences in this field. When you work for an organization that's top down looking at leadership as servant leadership, they're a lot more intentional about the professional development and growth of their staff. They're a lot more intentional about being a leader in their community and not just servicing the kids when they come through the door from 6 AM to 6 PM, but serving the entire family holistically, being a staple in their community, and feeling like they're of service and that what they provide is a need.
I think it's super important and I think it relates wholeheartedly to that statement of servant leadership and why he probably coined the phrase because if an organization looks at itself as a servant organization or has servant leadership as one of their core values, then from the top down, from leadership to the little babies that they serve or outwardly from the little babies to the families, children and families that that organization serves, everyone benefits from it.
It's based in a trust. That trust, that relationship-building piece, will be automatically built into it. The community will trust this organization to know, hey, I can go here and my kids are gonna get the education and care that they need, but also there'll be resources for me and for my family as a whole.
I am proud of the fact that I work for It Takes a Village because we are intentional both ways by making sure we speak to the fact that we are serving not just the children here, but we're serving the children, families, and the community, so that they can be transformative in their communities, this nation, and ultimately in the world as world citizens.
Marnetta: I love what you just said and I knew you were going to get there at some point. That's another characteristic of that servant leadership, creating that inclusive environment for the community serving and you were just talking about how you're meeting people where they are, giving them what they need, making sure that everyone has a voice. Yes, that obviously is just in your blood to lead in that way.
Before we shift to our next topic, is there anything else you'd like to share with us about servant leadership and either how individuals could adopt more of those practices or anything for the organizations who should do some shifting as well and those outcomes that come from that?
Darrell: I would say, servant leadership is the way. Subscribe to it, get it on a t-shirt or tattoo it if you're into that type of thing. It served me well. For those who haven't looked at leadership that way, I'd encourage you to try it.
Marnetta: Now I have a follow up question. What got you into this? Was it just a natural inclination? But what led you into servant leadership? Did you read a book?
Darrell: Absolutely not. I would say it's authentically me. Since I was a young, young, young lad, I've been afforded the opportunity to be in leadership on the speech team when I was in high school, show choir, and on dance teams. I'm still dancing. I'm almost 40 and I'm a part of three dance companies here in Chicago. I served as the vice president of one of those dance organizations. I am a leader in the ECE space.
When I was a coach, I looked at myself as a leader and so I think I was afforded those opportunities because of my ability to bring people together naturally. I think it's just a natural thing for me. To get success from the people that I had the opportunity to lead. I should say serve.
I think that's a part of me authentically, but I don't want people to think that that's not something they can't subscribe to or something that they can't do for themselves if they aren't that way naturally. Again, that's that relationship building piece, leaning into trust, being a servant of the people you work with, making sure they have all the things they need. It will be successful for you. For me, it is a part of who I am naturally. I'm a lover of people. I am a believer that you can find good in all situations. That may be authentically me, but I think servant leadership is something that anyone can do.
Marnetta: Yeah, most of them I agree. I appreciate your honesty there because there are some innate traits. It's just who I am as a person, but we always have an ability to have a growth mindset, like to shift the tide of what we're doing. It is possible there is literature out there. There are courses, et cetera. That's something you can shift into if your style does not lean from leading from the heart as opposed to policy and [inaudible 00:18:27].
Wonderful. Thank you so much for that. Let's move to this other part. Let's talk about holistic schooling. What are you talking about?
Darrell: Holistic schooling talks about an organization that, and I hate to revert it back to servant leadership, but holistic schooling comes from that servant leader mindset. A holistic school in my mind is that space that you can go to for everything. My organization, It Takes a Village Family of Schools, one of our founders speaks all the time about how when she was younger, she would go to the watering hole, [inaudible 00:19:15]. It was a program that she was a part of as a child that completely shifted her life, and encouraged her to build this organization with her mom.
That program is an example of that holistic schooling being able to go to school, not just to educate your kids, but there's resources there for the kids, there's resources there for the family, there's community events, there's activism taking place, there's just this holistic thing.
If a child is hungry when they come to school, maybe that family has some issues or some food insecurities and maybe that child isn't the only one in that family that may be suffering and may be hungry. That holistic school will provide some type of family support or some type of counselor or someone that meets with the family and sets goals and kind of gets acquainted with the family and then provides them with resources so that they can come out of that situation.
It's just this holistic approach with holistic schooling. In my mind, holistic schooling, I think, is the way education should go, being a staple in the community, serving not just the children, but the family and community as a whole.
Some schools would need to expand and then some schools are already headed in that direction by the types of positions they have, family support specialists, counselors, mental health, wellness centers attached to certain schools. To me, that is that holistic approach and I would just love to see schools being that centerpiece for the community.
Marnetta: I hear you saying not just addressing the immediate problem, but really get into the root of it and being a support system in alleviating or minimizing some of those barriers that come with having, for example, food insecurities in a household. Because we understand the impact of those things on education and the students that we have right in the classroom.
I love the idea of not just this immediate thing in front of me, but really looking and diving deep at the root and trying to solve as a whole this problem, issue, barrier challenge that might be in front of us.
Darrell: Sometimes, that can get misconstrued. People might want to implement this holistic approach in this school so they get a child that is having food insecurity or you realize they are hungry when they arrive. The school may go let's set them up [inaudible 00:22:17]. Print out this piece of paper. They have a food bank in this part of town. We just thought you should have it, right?
Is that holistic, right? If they can't buy food, do you know about their transportation needs? Are they going to be able to get to this food bank? A more realistic holistic approach will be having someone that can meet with families during orientation or registration for their child to attend that school, and then taking it a step further by setting goals and learning about that family's boundaries and then being able to address them there.
Obviously, resources or an organization's capacity would dictate how effective they can be in that holistic approach. But that would be the goal. That's the dream that schools are the hub of resources. We are not afraid as taxpayers to hear for funds to go in that direction knowing that it's going to serve the community holistically.
Just being really intentional about that and not just hey, I noticed this and I want to support you. Here's a list of all the places that can help you. Good luck with that. The heart's in the right place. Their heart is in the right place, but is that the holistic approach we dream of that we want ultimately for our students.
Marnetta: When you think about where we are today, what you're talking about isn't what we traditionally think of when we think about school. Children come. I have this role of educating them and then go on about your way. Why do you think that that has changed?
Darrell: Why our perspective of what school should be?
Marnetta: Yes
Darrell: I think my mindset has changed because I work in the field of education and people services and being of service to people and I know the benefits of that. I think people are starting to realize it's hard to have a one stop shop somewhere. It's hard to build that, but it's needed. If we really want to be a lover of people and to see our communities grow and we want to see equity across all platforms, I think that's a way that the less fortunate are seeing it could potentially be possible.
In my career, I've had the opportunity to work for programs that were in communities that were heavily resourced and the median income was higher than maybe another organization that I've worked for and the demographic of people they serve. When you can see both sides of the spectrum like that, you see this place has all of these resources and this place over here doesn't have that and so you start to think of ways of how you can replicate that and be of a resource.
With schools, education being like the pinnacle, it seems like that culminating place where people can go to and get those things. I do think it's based on equity and inclusion and making sure everyone has what they need. So yeah, I think it's just shifting with the time.
Marnetta: Most definitely. I think our early Head Start and Head Start programs have a good grasp of that holistic approach. When we talk about replication, how do we move that outside of that space? Because we know it doesn't stop there, right? Those families, those children, they still have those needs moving into the public school sector.
Again, we know the impact it has on their education. You think about Maslow, that hierarchy of needs. If I'm hungry, I can't focus on anything else but the fact that I am hungry so how do we remove those things so that the learning can happen and we can look at those outcomes that we know will make them successful adults moving forward. I like the idea of that replication. Are there other places aside from Early Head Start and like Head Start where people could go to replicate this type of holistic approach.
Darrell: I don't want to pretend to be an expert in that area. I can just speak to my own personal experiences so I want to make that clear. I'm a dreamer. Marnetta, I'm dreaming, right? I come from a low income family. I come from living in low income neighborhoods and I've been able to afford myself a career where I've been able to live in communities and work with communities outside of where I actually come from. That's where that dream is coming from for me and I really try to stay away from being political, but I want to just speak to being an American citizen and I think people need to really be aware of how important voting is and being aware of the change that we can make if we unite.
My dream is that communities are so tight-knit that they can set goals together and be able to effectively go after it with numbers for the service and for the betterment of everyone in that community. A lot of times I see communities that are heavily resourced and maybe above the poverty line when it comes to income, they kind of do that. They have community, they have town hall meetings, they discuss what's important to them. Then they all kind of do that. In my experience in the neighborhoods that I grew up in that did not have a lot of resources.
Community felt like the people on my block. If I was hungry, we could go to our neighbors and get milk and that's your community. It feels smaller. When you're hungry, you're trying to survive and you have to care and you retreat to doing what's best for you so that you can just make it right. That we get out of that mindset of, again, dreaming.
If a school was to be in that neighborhood and be the catalyst for that change and bring people together by being a servant institution in that neighborhood and then ultimately create and being that holistic hub for a neighborhood and slowly transforming that and creating jobs in that neighborhood and making education the pinnacle of all of that would be amazing. That's me dreaming. That's me dreaming.
Marnetta: Yeah, I love dreams. I don't like to be political either. You're correct. We don't want to just vote in general elections, the big ones. It's also so many policies and bills that affect early childhood education that are not just in the general election. It's also in the people you promote to higher offices. There's so many things that slip through when we're not paying attention.
Voting and being aware of what's happening in our early childhood landscape is important to make sure that we get the things that we need, the funding, right? The support for our educators, and supporting their salaries, retaining our workforce, all of those things are important for us to do this work that we all love so much.
Darrell: Yeah.
Marnetta: While you're dreaming, how do you see or where do you see schooling evolving?
Darrell: I think it's just that. I think schooling should evolve in the way that schools are not as traditional like this K through high school and then college, early childhood education, grammar, middle high school, then college and then graduate, type of thing. It's just about school.
But again, I do see it changing in that holistic approach and I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with the organization like It Takes a Village Family of Schools because that is what our CEO, Nakisha Hobbs, and our CGO, Anita Andrews-Hutchinson, they're both co-owners, are actively working in leadership here still which is a blessing.
That is the direction we're going for. It's that change in that educational space, being culturally responsive to the children and families that we serve. Being able to provide wellness opportunities to the community as well as education. Being able to provide career pathways to families and resources, education opportunities for not just the children we serve, but for the community in general.
Our workforce development program was an example of that. It directly came due to a need from our community. We have children we need to serve and we don't have enough teachers, but we need to go out and get more teachers and we need to train them. We need to have patience and we need to fight for funding to do this type of work and go out and get it.
I think that is the direction that I see educational spaces going to being culturally responsive, making sure that all children, no matter their creed, skin tone, they feel seen and represented and empowered and that not just the kid's getting this knowledge and growing, but there's education opportunities for the family as a whole and then as a community as a whole.
I see education going that way in certain places, I would say. In Chicago, we have recently, in our public school system, we're adapting this elective school board officials type of thing. It's causing an uproar in Chicago. I won't speak too much about it because I'm not an expert in that.
But I would hope that the result of these things is more holistic schooling efforts for neighborhoods, making sure funds are distributed equally and ultimately so that schools can be like this example of servant leadership, top down, a servant organization. The community and ultimately becoming that holistic schooling approach and being like that pinnacle of neighborhoods. That's my dream.
Marnetta: When we think about the holistic approach and then that more traditional model of schools, how are we placing unfair expectations on educators?
Darrell: I think that kind of circles us back to being servant leaders. If we have a classroom that's over ratio, a teacher has too many teachers in the classroom, we can't expect that teacher to also do family assessments and also write grants and also do all of these things.
We need to pour funding into our educational system so that we can have people in to do those jobs specifically. If we don't and we aim high, we could place unrealistic expectations on teachers and ultimately cause them to leave the field. We do not want that. We do not want that at all. We want to make sure that we are not placing those unfair expectations on teachers.
The way that we do that is making sure they are absolutely equipped with all the things that they need, making sure that those who are leaders of that organization, our servant leaders, in ways that they are serving the teachers, in the ways that they continue to pour into the field of education by workforce development and making sure we have enough teachers and classrooms and then ultimately seeking funding that can allow us to expand the services that schools provide so that teachers aren't called on to do everything.
I used to be a teacher and I was a pre-k teacher and that's a lot. You're not just teaching ABCs and one two threes. You're a counselor. You're a problem solver. You're a teacher. You're a friend if the community is really that tight. Going for that holistic schooling model is the dream.
But as we reach for our dream, we have to be very intentional not to overwhelm our teachers, our change makers. They are building our future of tomorrow and so we want to make sure we are loving them the most, just like we love our kids the most.
Marnetta: Yeah. I was going to ask a follow-up question about retention, but you kind of wrapped it up in that last response. How can we retain and support these important, pivotal people for what we need to do in our field? I appreciate that. That was a nice whole way of where I needed you to go.
Darrell: I was also going to say we definitely want to make sure we're supporting teachers in that way. One of my supervisors used to always say to me people don't quit their jobs. Most teachers love teaching, right? They quit their supervisors. That's another reason why it's so important that we implement that servant leadership, especially in spaces where we are trying to retain our teachers.
Please retain your teachers. If you're listening, do everything to service your teachers, love one of them, make sure they have everything they need, the same way you would support a child, support that teacher.
Obviously not the same way. I don't want you going rocking any of your teachers. Don't try to lift them up and hurt your back. Then you won't be able to show up for the kids. But be there and be of support and have that servant mindset and look through that servant lens. How can you serve? I think servant leadership is definitely the way to combat our teacher service crisis that we're experiencing.
Marnetta: Most definitely, because even in the most stretching environment, if I have good support, if my leader is giving me what I need and the support, I can withstand anything if I feel supported. You put the nail on the head with. We don't quit a job, we ain't quitting the role, we quit you. We are leaders in all the shenanigans that come with that leadership, right?
Darrell: Yeah.
Marnetta: You hit the nail on the head with that. Any final thoughts before we say goodbye?
Darrell: [inaudible 00:39:34] It has been a pleasure speaking with you, Marnetta. I'm looking forward to us connecting again and talking about all the things CLASS and early childhood education. Be the change you want to see people.
Marnetta: Thanks for talking with us, Darrell, about how to lead with our heart as opposed to all those other external factors. Those relationships, those interactions are the most important thing that really drive the outcomes that we're trying to seek.
Alright, listeners, we hope you've enjoyed today's conversation and we hope that you follow along for another great season. You can find today's episode and transcript on our website, teachstone.com/podcast. We'd love to know what you think so let us know by dropping us a like and a comment on Apple Podcast or from whatever platform you are streaming from so that we can continue to make content that really speaks to you. You can also send us an email at
[email protected]. As always, behind great leading and teaching are powerful interactions. Let's build that culture together. Talk to you soon.
